Nicolaou It is difficult for any reasoning person to expect that a youngster or teenager would EVER be able to understand the ramifications of such a weighty decision. I recall one of my best friend's daughters got baptized at an assembly. She was probably 13. I asked her why? she stated, "cause I love Jehovah and cause my friend and I wanted to do it together." Afterwards, she asked if they could go celebrate by getting pizza. Fast forward 3 years, she doesn't want to be a Witness. She wants to go to college and be a "normal" person. As for Randy's post, it is easily assumed that when you join a club, the onus is on you to know what that entails. But, when it comes to young people, minors if you prefer, the onus is on the parent. My kid can't get swimming lessons without my consent. My kid can't join the BoyScouts without my consent. My kid can't go to Bible camp without my consent. For a parent to pressure his kid toward baptism when that kid can't even keep his room clean is irresponsible. Some might say, "yeah, but it serves as a protection." No, what serves as a protection is being a GOOD PARENT. We don't allow young people to join the military because it is, at times, a life and death decision. Young people makes hasty decisions. They are typically easily swayed. They want to impress and satisfy others, particularly their parents. They do not, typically, understand the weight or responsibility. This applies to baptism as well. The JWs condemn the Catholic Church for infant baptism, then practice a form of it themselves. Just a thought, SOP
Separation of Powers
JoinedPosts by Separation of Powers
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55
"You knew what the consequences were when YOU decided to leave The Truth. This is YOUR decision and the outcome is YOUR responsibility."
by nicolaou inhow many of us have had to deal with a version of that retort?!
it's hurtful and i suspect - for some - that's partly because of the nagging feeling that our families may have a point.. but do they?.
i was 15 when i got baptised, is it reasonable that as the 50 year old man i'll be on my next birthday i continue to be held to a decision i made as a schoolboy?.
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Am I wasting my time?
by mrhhome ini am the husband of an ex-jw.
she left when she was 18, because she was dating a non-jw.
they got married, and he began openly cheating on her.
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Separation of Powers
Mrhhome Kudos to you for standing up for your wife. Most actions of JW's can be explained away as nonsensical Biblical interpretation. However, when it comes to funerals, the "shunning" is used as a hammer. What is EXTREMELY funny is their opinion that it is OK for a JW to attend a funeral of a "non believer" even to the extent of attending it in a church or house of worship other than the KH. The reason is obvious, let the "non believer" see that JW's are not fanatical, heartless, brazen bastards and maybe the "non believer's" heart will soften. But, when it comes to the disfellowshipped, treat them like trash in your own hall! Hypocrisy at its finest! As for changing their minds, in the immortal words of Yoda, "Never underestimate the power of the Dark Side." just a thought, SOP
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"False Prophets" part notably uncomfortable
by Separation of Powers inso, service meeting last night.
bro handling the "false prophet" part was notably disturbed.
every time he spoke of previous "expectations" his body language was like "oh my god, can you believe i'm saying this?
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Separation of Powers
So, Service meeting last night. Bro handling the "false Prophet" part was notably disturbed. Every time he spoke of previous "expectations" his body language was like "oh my god, can you believe I'm saying this?" A LOT of talk about the "light getting brighter" and the organization is brave for making changes that others will criticize. Then he would revert back to the "expectations" portion and get all jittery. It was like his cognitive dissonance was ready to break. I could swear he looked right at me (I'm sitting in the 2nd row) and as he said "Jehovah's organization has never claimed to be inspired." his head was nodding "yes."
I'm starting to wonder if he might be one of us.....
"Hey, if you gave the talk and feel the same as the rest of us...don't worry, you're in good company."
Just a thought,
SOP
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Separation of Powers
I can't believe I didn't understand it before! It is now SOOOOO easy. I feel like a fool! The generations overlap, therefore, there is any distinction between generations because they are all simply a muddled group of people of different ages and experiences. It is like a Mango Mojito, the mint is "muddled" with all those other flavors, the rum, the mango, the simple syrup...it's all a muddled concoction that simply tastes great! I get it now. Oh, my word, I get it...Thank you SOOOO much!
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The Bible and it's promise of Heaven and various other things
by confusedandalone innow in no way am i trying to discredit anyones beliefs or make fun, but once you get to heaven what is the plan once you get there.. of course, we always overlay extremely physical things upon the experience of heaven... milk and honey... ruiling over the earth etc... truthful the whole idea sounds so boring / mundane /monotonous.
spending all of eternity serving god by carry messages here and there?.
watching humans... i guess spending time with family that are also there and reminiscing.
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Separation of Powers
I don't know if anyone else has pondered on this.
If there is a heaven...a reward for pleasing God, being counted worthy or righteous, then there must be a hell.
If there is a heaven...where one is in the presence of God, enjoying supernatural consciousness, then there must exist another place, a place where those not rewarded, not counted worthy or righteous, exist.
Hell will be no place of fiery torment, but rather, a place separate from God, with total consciousness, where the "unrighteous" experience the exact opposite of those counted worthy.
THAT is biblical justice. What you sow, you reap. Eye for an eye and all that.
However, you have to believe in God for any of this to even matter, and not just any god, but the God of the Bible.
Otherwise, it simply doesn't matter, cause when you're dead, there is nothing you can do about it anyway. It's all a big crapshoot.
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NEW BIBLE
by The Searcher inthe following is part of an email from a retired district overseer in the states.
(source private).
"the new bible will be released at the agm and i understand only two versions will be printed from now on.
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Separation of Powers
@ Paralipomenon
I would not doubt it that this is the intent. If you can rewrite history, why not rewrite your textbook as well?!? It would definitely allow them to make tremendous adjustments with minimal blowback.
BTW, like the name
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JW upbringing - the gift that keeps on taking
by Simon inthe things they take from you:.
first they take your childhoodthen they take your familyfinally they take your memorieswe all know that you limit your social interactions so you have few school friends who are not jws.
they openly promote this in their magazines and it's repeated at meetings throughout your formative years.
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Separation of Powers
Very true Simon.
I would add that, for many, they take away their adulthood, as well, particularly their social skills. They demonize everyone and everything to such a degree that many when they become adults simply don't know how to react to others.
There is ALWAYS an ulterior motive or some ANGLE with "worldly people."
Funny, most of the times I've been ripped off or had to deal with psychological warfare it has been with a JW. Most of my "worldly" friends would bend over backwards to help me out or rejoice with me when there are things I want to celebrate.
Yep, the damage is deep and doesn't erase easily.
Just a thought,
SOP
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God's good for "$66 dollars"
by Separation of Powers inlast week's watchtower study related an experience of a sister who prayed that god would help her with her rent.
she needed $66 dollars.
she went to her waitressing job on an off night and would you believe?
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Separation of Powers
Was it part of Jehovah's mindful, active, purposeful plan?
Great post! However, I must remind you...God doesn't have a plan...He has a "purpose." Does he have a purposeful purpose? Or if he is a Prince fan...Does he have a purple purposeful purpose? If he were a marine mammal that liked Prince, could he be called a Porpoise with a purple purposeful purpose?
By the way, great scientific angle in addressing the subject.
Just a thought,
SOP
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God's good for "$66 dollars"
by Separation of Powers inlast week's watchtower study related an experience of a sister who prayed that god would help her with her rent.
she needed $66 dollars.
she went to her waitressing job on an off night and would you believe?
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Separation of Powers
Now, was her rent $66 dollars or she just needed $66 dollars to complete her rent?
If she's renting somewhere for $66 dollars then THAT is the proof of divine intervention! Then again, if she is renting someplace for $66 dollars that means that the area is obviously economically challenged, if it is that challenged then $66 bucks would be a phenomenal take in tips!
Knew a sister who ran out of gas while pioneering because she didn't have the money for gas. Her car stranded her and two sisters out in the boondocks. A farmer came along and picked them up, took them to his farm so they could use the phone. It took the tow truck three hours to get them, $50 dollars for the tow on one of the other sister's credit cards, and several other people inconvenienced because they had to pick up the two passenger sisters from the gas station where the "credit card" sister put $10 of gas in the pioneer's car (now she's out $60).
Evidence of God's blessing? The pioneer sister left a set of mags with the farmer. Divine intervention!
Hey, where's that sister's $66 bucks, she be ahead $6!
SOP
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God's good for "$66 dollars"
by Separation of Powers inlast week's watchtower study related an experience of a sister who prayed that god would help her with her rent.
she needed $66 dollars.
she went to her waitressing job on an off night and would you believe?
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Separation of Powers
Last week's Watchtower study related an experience of a sister who prayed that God would help her with her rent. She needed $66 dollars. She went to her waitressing job on an off night and would you believe? She got a whopping $66 in tips. Amazing!
This was the best example they could find to show that the Almighty is looking after his people? $66?
What about that brother with cancer or those that don't have insurance? Those that lose their jobs and have a family to support? That brother stricken with ALS or that sister with ovarian cancer whose husband ran out on her? Where is there $66 bucks? I mean, if this is the best example you can provide in a study article to encourage the brethren of God's intervention in behalf of believers...it would have been best NOT to include it.
Seriously?!?!
Just a thought,
SOP